the article as i approved your message.
thanks, your your ryply.
Yes, it was flawed. 1st think i thought and asked, what public figure
could have written this?
Notice how gays are used as a convenient marketing tool?
Also, notice that even Murdock wants to get into the LGBT business (not
mentioned in this article).
The very people who hate gays, want to make money off of gays. just as
they use them as political tools to use against muslims.
...jake
--- In Peckers_Pics@yahoogroups.com, Mark Fischer <fischerwdc@...>
wrote:
>
> Jake,
>
> I am not sure to whom this comment is addressed but I will speak for
what I
> wrote . . . that based upon my reading of the article, it was so
flawed
> that it was useless and the list of flaws was almost endless.
>
> Instead of just trashing the article, I chose to try to make valid
points
> that could lead to understanding of both sides and illustrate how both
> could get what they need and deserve.
>
> In so doing, I seem to have accidentally would up supporting much of
what
> Sarah Schulman wrote in "Israel & Pinkwashing"
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/opinion/pinkwashing-and-israels-use-of\
-gays-as-a-messaging-tool.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
> .
>
> With all due respect and IMHO, if you wanted a discussion of "Israel &
> Pinkwashing", you would have done better to post it or at least a link
to
> it instead of posting Bruce Bawer's contorted response filled with
specious
> arguments. Having read "Israel & Pinkwashing", I don't see how it was
any
> ore likely to start a war than Bawer's piece . . . but I do not
monitor the
> dynamics of opinion in the group.
>
> I did not see your "assignment" that set boundaries for responses. If
we
> are to only do as directed, I will tailor my participation
accordingly.
>
> I am not trying to be difficult but I am puzzled by your last post.
>
> On a personal note, I hope you are feeling better.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mark Fischer
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Jake jakewest_tn@... wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > *OK, I do not think any one will will get this. *
> >
> > *It might as well been written by Ann Coutler. Christians never kill
> > Gays? *
> >
> > *Maybe cause it is athe law? *
> >
> > *But, Christians did support christians killing Gays in Uganda +
other
> > parts of Africa.*
> >
> > *Let us not make this a Isreali Human rights isuue. I asked what is
> > wreong with this article? *
> >
> > *Is is possible to keep policitics & nd religion out of it? I asked
> > what public figure could have written it? *
> >
> > *Further, i hoped someone would google + read the New York Times
> > article about Israel & Gay Pinkwashing.*
> >
> > *I was afraid to print the article as i did not want war in the
group. *
> >
> > *I did not ask if one was pro- or anti-palestinean. I was asking
what was
> > wrong with the article & what public figure could have written it? *
> >
> > *Obvious there was a christian/political theme. This article defends
> > israel and gays from the conservative side of politics in the USA. *
> >
> > *I find this form of using gays for christian progaganda to be
> > disgusting. Personally i do not support israel's use of it.*
> >
> > *I do not support of christianities so-called love of gay people and
> > attack of muslims when christians do not even want to employ gays,
nor
> > render gays civil/equal rights here in the USA with out a huge
blow-up.
> > Right now we have a gay-teen age suicide epidemic and there refusal
to
> > legally deal with it. *
> >
> > *The whole thing is sickening. it is using gay people as a tool, a
prop,
> > a object, thing. *
> >
> > *...jake*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Peckers_Pics@yahoogroups.com, "msfwdc" fischerwdc@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Any discussion of the real situation between Israelis and
Palestinians
> > > seems to have been buried beneath a squabble between the two
bloggers,
> > > Bruce Bawer and Sarah Schulman. I prefer to ignore their battle of
egos
> > > and focus on the genuine human issues at hand.
> > >
> > > Trying to "pick sides" based on "gay issues" alone is foolhardy
and
> > > ignores the facts.
> > >
> > > * There are gay supportive Palestinians.
> > > * There are anti-gay Israelis including the ultra-conservative
Chief
> > > Rabbi of Israel.
> > > * There are gay hating Christians, Jews and Muslims.
> > > * There are gay accepting Christians, Jews and Muslims.
> > > * There are Israel- respecting Palestinians.
> > > * There are Palestinian-respecting Israelis.
> > > * There are Christian Palestinians as well as Muslim ones.
> > >
> > > * There are Israelis who oppose the harm and discrimination
Israeli
> > > perpetrates against innocent Palestinians.
> > > * There are Palestinians who opposed the injury and death militant
> >
> > > Palestinians perpetrate against innocent Israelis.
> > > * There are groups, sometimes called "Peaceniks", of Israelis and
and
> >
> > > Palestinians who work together to achieve peace and cooperation.
> > >
> > > So. let's top the overly simplistic generalizations that draw
> > > counterproductive lines between human beings and thwart progress.
> > >
> > > In the absence of basic human rights for all, gay rights, women's
> > > rights, religious freedom and all the other sub-sets of "human
rights"
> > > cannot exist. So. let's stop being so self-important and
impatient, put
> > > first things first, and build the essential foundation of human
rights
> > > for all before we start trying to design the individual rooms in
the
> > > house that does not yet exist.
> > >
> > > That does not mean I have any less of a commitment to full
equality for
> > > LGBT citizens around the globe.
> > >
> > > That does mean that I see myself as a human being, first and
foremost .
> > > . . all the rest . . . being male, white, gay, American, etc . . .
are
> > > accidents of birth for which I claim not special privilege and for
which
> > > I deserve no discrimination.
> > >
> > > To be clear . . .
> > >
> > > * I unequivocally support the right of the state of Israel to
exist
> > > in peace and safety.
> > > * I unequivocally support the right of the Palestinian people to
an
> > > independent, sovereign state.
> > > * I believe both can and should exist in a spirit of mutual
respect
> > > and cooperation.
> > >
> > > * I believe that the existence of both is the only path to peace
in
> >
> > > the Middle East.
> > > Cheers!
> > > Mark Fischer
> > > Washington, DC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Peckers_Pics@yahoogroups.com, "Jake" jakewest_tn@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Twink Nov 26, 2011 / Health-News-PICS
> > > > Safe PICS For All Ages / "NO" Religious Discussion
> > > > Boycott Trump-TARGET-FOX NEWS/Murdoch-Salvation Army
> > > > Watch "Countdown w/ Keith Olbermann" - "CURRENT TV" (8 PM EST,
M-F)
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Peckers_PICS/join/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Consider joining:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > * Members should join our President Barack Obama group
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join> . (Health
Care &
> > > > Gay Rights, Gay Marriage, Repeal DOMA, Don't Ask & Don't
Tell)....
> > > Osama
> > > > Bin Laden is killed (May 1, 2011)! President Obama was totally
> > > involved
> > > > and viewed the entire operation in real time. President Obama
made a
> > > > very serious decision that worked! Bravo!!!
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join> * Occupy
Wall
> > > > Street http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Occupy_Wall_Street/join
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Occupy_Wall_Street/join> *
> > > Wrestling
> > > > Pic group
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CyberWrestlingGuys/join> @
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CyberWrestlingGuys/join
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CyberWrestlingGuys/join> *
Bearhug
> > > > Yahoo PIC Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bearhug/join
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bearhug/join> * HeadLock
> > > HeadScissor
> > > >
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeadLockAndHeadScissorsWrestling/join>
> > > @
> > > >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeadLockAndHeadScissorsWrestling/join
> > > >
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeadLockAndHeadScissorsWrestling/join>
> > > > * Heath Ledger group
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeathLedgerTributeSite/join> @
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeathLedgerTributeSite/join
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeathLedgerTributeSite/join> *
> > > > Bearhug Submission
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BearhugSubmission_/join> - NEW:
> > > > Roommates, A New Coach (Episode 118, By Clay)
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BearhugSubmission_/message/2550>
> > > > (Continuing Wrestling Fiction Series). Your "Public" Yahoo
Profile
> > > must
> > > > include "Public" Age, Gender, Location - before you apply for
> > > membership
> > > > @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BearhugSubmission_/join
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BearhugSubmission_/join>
> > > >
> > > > Diet & Fitness:
> > > >
> > > > * Reminder: Did you complete your Diet Journal today? * Did you
> > > do
> > > > any physical activity? If not, make a point of it by tomorrow! *
> > > > Perhaps our male fitness photos shall inspire you to get Fit!
> > > > Health, Wellness, Exercise, Reflections:Holiday Calorie
Solution: Swap
> > > > Olive Oil for Butter
> > > > By Jorge Cruise - November 25, 2011
> > > > Butter may taste great, but it's loaded with calories and fat.
> > > > Here's a tip for cutting your butter intake: Fill a small
plastic
> > > > container with olive oil and place it in your refrigerator. The
oil
> > > will
> > > > solidify, taking on the consistency of butter. Just spread 1/2
> > > > tablespoon of this on your toast instead of butter. It will
taste a
> > > > little weird at first, but after a few days, your taste buds
will grow
> > > > used to it.
> > > > You can also use olive oil as a "dip." Just drizzle a bit into a
> > > > shallow dish. Then dip small pieces of bread into the oil. Use
> > > > extra-virgin oil for more flavor. To add more taste to your oil
> > > > "dip," add freshly chopped garlic or dried spices such as salt,
> > > > pepper, or oregano. Or consider trying a pre-flavored oil, such
as
> > > > garlic-flavored olive oil. Try this better butter substitute
today -
> > > > it'll help you balance your calorie budget during this
diet-busting
> > > > time of year!Take Action:
> > > > * Boycott Bill O'Reilly and FOX News and their advertisers. Bill
> > > > discussed a French commercial by McDonalds that was meant to
show that
> > > > McDonalds is Gay Friendly. Bill said what is next? Is McDonalds
going
> > > to
> > > > be Al-Qaida friendly as well? Imagine - Bill O'Reilly compares
Gays to
> > > > Al-Qaida! <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join>
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join> Further,
Boycott
> > > > Fox's Owner "Rupert Murcoch" and get him thrown in jail for
illegal -
> > > > political donations, corruption, greed, bribery, hacking! *
Boycott
> > > > Target, Best Buy, Gold's Gym - for donating money towards
anti-gay
> > > > political candidates/organizations.
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join> Update:
> > > > (12/26/2010): Target is continuing to donate to anti-gay
> > > > groups/causes/politicians. Update 03/08/11 - Lady Gaga Ends
Target
> > > > Partnership, Reportedly Over Target's Poor LGBT Stance. Update
> > > 3/25/2010
> > > > - Target displays their hypocrisy and Sues California Gay Rights
Group
> > > > for Lobbying Outside Stores. Target is attempting to block the
LGBT
> > > > right of free speech! STOP SHOPPING AT TARGET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Update
> > > > 4/8/2011: Target lost its case to stop the LGBT from canvassing
in
> > > front
> > > > of their stores. A huge PR Disaster for TARGET! Perhaps Target
should
> > > go
> > > > out of business as they betrayed their investers and customer
base.
> > > > Target contributed massive funds to a politician who would like
to
> > > > exterminate gays. Now, Target can not stop us from Boycotting
them,
> > > nor
> > > > picketing, nor talking to customers near their stores; although,
> > > Target
> > > > allows a anti-gay company such as the Salvation Army to stand
outside
> > > > their door and speak with customers and raise money. Isn't this
a
> > > double
> > > > standard? * End DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act). Prevents Federal
> > > > employees and Gays in the Military from gaining equal benefits.
> > > Prevents
> > > > Gay Partners from gaining equal benefits. * Pass a LGBT friendly
> > > ENDA
> > > > (Employee Non-Discrimination Act). ENDA would prevent employment
> > > > discrimination of LGBT workforce. * Boycott Salvation Army as
they
> > > > will not hire Gays! "DO NOT DONATE TO THEM." * BOYCOTT
"Chick-fil-a"
> > > > for donating money to anti-gay groups. * BOYCOTT KOCH INDUSTRIES
> > > > PRODUCTS- to include their products: Angel Soft toilet paper /
Brawny
> > > > paper towels / Dixie plates, bowls, napkins & cups / Mardi Gras
> > > napkins
> > > > and towels / Quilted Northern toilet paper / Soft 'n Gentle
toilet
> > > paper
> > > > / Sparkle napkins / Vanity fair napkins / Zee napkins /
> > > Georgia-Pacific
> > > > paper products & envelopes / All Georgia-Pacific lumber &
building
> > > > products (INVISTA Products) / Lycra / Stainmaster Carpet. The
> > > > billionaire - Koch brothers are ultra republican - tea bag
> > > > founders/supporters that do not support causes of the LGBT
community.
> > > > * Boycott WALMART - The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force
criticized
> > > > Wal-Mart for denying employee benefits to same-s-x partners and
for
> > > > failing to prohibit discrimination based on gender identity. By
> > > > comparison, the group said two other chain stores with a strong
> > > presence
> > > > in New York, Costco and Walgreens, did much better. * "Tune Out
> > > > Trump", Boycott all Trump Hotel, casinos, holdings, The
Apprentice and
> > > > NBC Network! At CPAC, Trump said he is considering a run for
president
> > > > as a Republican. In a interview with the Des Moines Register,
Trump
> > > > added that he opposes all forms of legal recognition for gay
couples,
> > > > not just marriage. "They should not be able to marry," he said.
So why
> > > > does NBC keep the Apprentice when Donald Trump has stated he may
run
> > > for
> > > > president? After making racist remarks about Obama and recv'g
public
> > > > backlash, Trump decided not to run for president after NBC
renewed his
> > > > awful TV Show. How can NBC re-new the clown's show after he
pulled
> > > such
> > > > hateful shenanigans? * Boycott Georgia for Execution of Troy
Davis @
> > > > 11:08 EST, Sep 21, 2011:
> > > > Former US President and Former GA Gov. Jimmy Carter felt that
TROY
> > > DAVIS
> > > > should not be executed and deserved a re-trial. The Former
Director of
> > > > the FBI felt that TROY DAVIS Was Not Guilty! Do not drive
through
> > > > Goergia as it is dangerous. Do not fly via Atlanta. For your
safety
> > > -Do
> > > > not travel to GA. TELL YOUR COMPANY NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN A
CONVENTION
> > > > IN GA! "Georgia Executes Innocent People!"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And Now, Our War of the Fittest!
> > > > This group is called "Peckers Pics." The English - slang
definition of
> > > > "pecker" is to pluck at the truth. Therefore, we peck at items
such as
> > > > Gay Men's Health, Male Fitness, Gay (LGBT) Politics & Issues. In
this
> > > > section you may peck at each photo in order to decide the winner
of
> > > the
> > > > "war of the fittest!" Whereas, you should select the "Male
Athlete"
> > > that
> > > > may inspire you to exercise and "get fit!" Warning: This may
stoke
> > > > you!Your participation in discussion of health / news articles -
> > > > appearing in this message is greatly appreciated.1 2 3 3a 4US
Military
> > > 5
> > > > 6 7 8 9Daniel Herman 10HLEB HARBACHEUSKI 11ZACH ZIMMERMAN
12Mitch
> > > > Baker 13NATHAN KEHN 14 15 15 16 17SIMON NESSMAN 18 19 20 21 22
You
> > > > Decide!Atlanta Pride; Oct 9, 2011Stoked?Atlanta Pride; Oct 9,
2011The
> > > > Self-Destructive Insanity of Pro-Palestinian Gay ActivistsFront
Page
> > > > Magazine; Nov 25, 2011; Bruce Bawer
> > > > On November 22, the New York Times ran an op-ed by the radical
leftist
> > > > lesbian Jewish playwright Sarah Schulman which did a great
public
> > > > service – it provided a perfect illustration of the utter
lunacy
> > > of
> > > > the anti-Israeli, pro-Palestinian queer left.
> > > > Schulman opened her piece, entitled "Israel and 'Pinkwashing,'"
by
> > > > quoting a line from William Butler Yeats (a writer who,
incidentally,
> > > > would have found both her work and her politics utterly vile).
The
> > > > line, also the title of a famous short story by Delmore
Schwartz, was
> > > > this: "In dreams begin responsibilities." Schulman maintained
that
> > > > Yeats's words "resonate with lesbian, gay, bisexual and
transgender
> > > > people who have witnessed dramatic shifts in our relationship to
> > > power."
> > > > She meant by this that while gay people have won rights and
respect in
> > > > various countries around the world, "these changes have given
rise to
> > > a
> > > > nefarious phenomenon: the co-opting of white gay people by
> > > > anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim political forces in Western
Europe and
> > > > Israel."
> > > > Schulman went on to express her revulsion at the enthusiasm of
some
> > > > Dutch gays for the late Pim Fortuyn and for the very much alive
Geert
> > > > Wilders, and at the fact that the English Defense League has
over a
> > > > hundred gay members. She also took me on: "In Norway," she
wrote,
> > > > "Anders Behring Breivik, the extremist who massacred 77 people
in
> > > July,
> > > > cited Bruce Bawer, a gay American writer critical of Muslim
> > > immigration,
> > > > as an influence." (In fact, Breivik made it clear in his
writings
> > > that
> > > > I was not an influence on him - he considered me too much of a
> > > > libertarian. But no matter.)
> > > > The "depictions of immigrants" by people like me and Wilders "as
> > > > 'homophobic fanatics,'" wrote Schulman, "opportunistically
ignore the
> > > > existence of Muslim gays and their allies within their
communities."
> > > On
> > > > the contrary, I and many other anti-jihadists have written
extensively
> > > > about gay Muslims. What Schulman "opportunistically ignores" is
that
> > > > gay Muslims in Western Europe tend to live in terror of being
found
> > > out
> > > > by their families and communities. Their very lives are at risk.
So
> > > > dire is their plight that until recently there was not a single
"out"
> > > > gay Muslim in all of Norway, where I live. I am now personally
> > > > acquainted with the country's first openly gay male Muslim and
its
> > > first
> > > > openly lesbian Muslim, and I can inform Schulman that their
lives have
> > > > been made exceedingly difficult by the Muslim communities that
> > > Schulman
> > > > is so eager to defend.
> > > > To depict Muslims as antigay, Schulman further maintained, is to
> > > "render
> > > > invisible the role that fundamentalist Christians, the Roman
Catholic
> > > > Church and Orthodox Jews play in perpetuating fear and even
hatred of
> > > > gays." Yes, there's hostility to gay people all over the place.
The
> > > > difference is that even the most famously gay-hating Christian
on the
> > > > planet, Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps, doesn't call for the
murder of
> > > > gay people and, as far as I know, has not killed any gays
himself. By
> > > > contrast, sharia law prescribes the death penalty for
homosexuality -
> > > a
> > > > punishment that has been carried out innumerable times by the
> > > > governments of several Islamic countries as well as by countless
> > > Muslim
> > > > families both in the Muslim world and in the West.
> > > > But does Schulman care about that? Apparently not. She is the
kind
> > > of
> > > > leftist for whom ideology will always trump reality. What she is
> > > > exercised about is the fact that Israel is, according to her,
> > > marketing
> > > > itself as gay-friendly: Tel Aviv's tourism board, for example,
is
> > > > spending about $90 million "to brand the city as 'an
international gay
> > > > vacation destination.'" Also, Benjamin Netanyahu told the U.S.
> > > Congress
> > > > in May "that the Middle East was 'a region where women are
stoned,
> > > gays
> > > > are hanged, Christians are persecuted.'"Every gay and lesbian
person
> > > who
> > > > has been lucky enough to survive the turmoil of growing up is a
> > > > survivor. Survivors always have an obligation to those who will
face
> > > the
> > > > same challenges."
> > > >
> > > > ....Jake <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join>
Important
> > > > Notice: Our ObamaBiden2008
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join> Group works
hand
> > > -
> > > > in - hand with Peckers PICS (Both groups were co-created to work
with
> > > > each-other). To prevent duplication of articles and questions,
all
> > > > members of this group are urgently recommended to join
ObamaBiden2008
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join> . We have
the LGBT
> > > > boycott list
> > > >
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/files/Boycott%20List/>
> > > > and discuss end of DADT, etc... There are 3 gay teen suicides in
the
> > > USA
> > > > - daily! There are Hate crimes against gay people. There are gay
> > > people
> > > > who are fired over their sexual identity. There are gay people
who
> > > died
> > > > for our cause! These groups are focused towards Yahoo Members
who
> > > > sincerely care about LGBT rights and are interested in Gay Mens
> > > Health!
> > > > Most important, we have a most critical election in 2012 that
shall
> > > > determine the future of LGBT rights and our health care (as many
> > > suffer
> > > > from pre-existing illness)! Please Join Now
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join> ! Pass This
Bill!
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join> - Occupy
Wall
> > > > Street! <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Occupy_Wall_Street/join>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------
All members of "Peckers PICS" are requested to join our "Obama Biden 2008" group as it runs in conjunction to this group. Both groups shall not repeat articles from one group to another. However, to gain full knowledge of Gay rights, members must belong to the Obama group as well as this group. Therefore, please accept your invitation to join.
To join the Obama group please click (or copy and paste the link into your browser) @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ObamaBiden2008/join
Thank you!
"Every gay and lesbian person who has been lucky enough to survive the turmoil of growing up is a survivor. Survivors always have an obligation to those who will face the same challenges."
...Jake (Moderator)
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